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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  February 4, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PST

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don't listen to the naysayer. take the comcast business speed test. get faster speeds or more savings, or we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. hello, everybody. jordan executed two prisoners they hoped to exchange for jordanian pilot killed by islamic state militants. tuesday, they released a video showing the burning of the pilot. let's get more into this story and the details of it. i'm joined on the phone by nbc foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin. the king said he would act swiftly and he made good on that. >> reporter: he sure did. actually, i mean the king actually was cutting the trip short and seemed that even
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before he arrived in jordan he gave the final go-ahead for what the jordanian government now has confirmed earlier in morning in jordan's local time the minister of interior carried out the execution of two al qaeda-related prisoners that it had in its custody, the two individuals were on death row convicted for their involvement in terrorist attacks against the kingdom. one of those individuals that was executed today was sajida al rishawi rishawi. an individual they were willing to exchange for the pilot. the government has been coming under some pressure today as you can see the images on the people. people had been gathering late into the evening once the news broke gnat pilot had been executed demanding revenge, demanding that the jordanian government carry out some kind of action and we saw that the
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jordanian government did go ahead with the execution of the two individuals. the other person identified by the interior ministry is believed to be a senior member of al qaeda in iraq a precursor group to isis and very close to the leadership of that group before it was somewhat decimated back in 2000 in the iraq 2005 2006 during the u.s. occupation of iraq. but yes, indeed early word this morning is that the jordanian government went ahead and carried out an execution against these two prisoners in its custody. >> i think as people follow the story and moved rather quickly today hearing earlier that the pilot killed in such a brutal manner in a cage burned alive, a lot of people have been watching isis and following the brutality of the beheadings and shocking enough an move to this extreme,
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why do you think they ratcheted up? >> well it's really hard to answer that question unless you have the inside knowledge of what isis was thinking. what we can glean from the video they released in association with the execution is it fit a narrative and that so many of i guess its own citizens or people that were living within the islamic state subject to coalition air strikes or other previous air strikes were burned alive. and so one of the things that they did show throughout the course of the propaganda video, about 22 minutes long is it tried to show some of the victims of these air strikes and previous attacks and it showed those bodies burned bodies. the reason and some people believe the reason why they burned the jordanian pilot alive
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as they described it basically an eye for an eye. trying to show that same type of you know barbarity if you will that they claim to have witnessed. >> as we follow this as it played out today, i think some people wonder as you look back at this this jordanian pilot comes from a prominent family and being told that he was killed on january 3rd although they were still isis asking for a swap and they were still trying to bargain for him and yet why would they do that if they knew -- why would they kill him if they knew he was so crucial to them? if he was a bargaining chip for him? the sy quensequence is important to 'em if size and the way it unfolded since the negotiations
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intensified, was that the isis group actually released a void owe for the japanese hostage saying that he was going to be released in exchange for the jordanian terrorist. >> right. >> it was then at that point that the jordanian government put on the table the offer to release this individual the jordanian -- the woman in jordanian custody in exchange for the jordanian pilot and seems almost that jordan was challenging isis that if they did, in fact really want this jordanian -- the prisoner in jordan's custody that they would release her only on the condition that they also released the pilot that isis was holding. and isis was unable to provide a proof of life. it seemed now we know why they were unable to provide that proof of life. that's one of the reasons that the jordanian government did not go through with the deal. they insisted that isis provide a proof of life video that the
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pilot that was executed today was, in fact alive and safe before they went ahead and released any trft that they had in their custody. >> right. >> and it seems that they probably had some good intelligence that he was not alive and that's why they demanded that proof of life before going through with that deal. >> all right. stand by. we want to bring in laith, from flash point global partners. you have been watching this a seen enit play out today with the latest of jordan executing the two al qaeda members. what do you make of -- what happens next now? now that jordan has promised swift action it's carried out swift action where does this go from here? >> look. i think there are multiple things that the jordanian authorities are carried out going forward and one is gathering as much intel as possible of possible cells in
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jordan. finding acceptance by jordan or not and the jordanian government has to demonstrate this was not a defeat to the jordanian spirit. this is adding to the international coalition to combat this growing terror problem in the region and hitting home. so they have to be absolutely vigilant about how they're going to go forward on that but also the third point on that is the jordanian government has to absolutely make sure it maintains the street faith in its actions, that it took this swift action to say that we are not weak. it if anything we are a strong government. we know how to deal with the international policy and we know how to deal with the situation. >> is this going to strengthen jordan's involvement with the coalition against isis? >> in my opinion it will.
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if anything you know what i've seen so far and demonstrated on the street of jordan is that the public has stood or standing rather with the government. they believe that the government has done the right thing. and they you know they're grieving for the family of the jordanian pilot. you know, i think it's going to strengthen its resolve. i think it will continue being part of the ideology and not back off and might amplify the role in the u.s.-led coalition. >> could it also be a tipping point for the muslim world coming to isis? >> you know i believe a number of individuals on social media some negative reaction from radicals what do not believe it was sharia based or it was legitimized by islamic phoenicia rye yeah. let's be careful here.
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we come across a statement that was distributed by isis to locals in syria that legitimizes execution by fire and the statement distributed back on january 20th. so you know i think the islamic state has preempted this at least to the locals so they once feel like it's not the right thing and distributed the statement to say if anything, we execute the pilot, we are doing the right thing. >> in a way does that give them cushion if you will and whereas many people look at this and say, you know what, your methods have backfired on you? >> you know, yeah, they might get a little bit of backfire but for those who adhere to the ideology, they would feel that the islamic state is actually carrying out its word, that is meeting the promise it made that it's carrying its vow and i
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think it might strengthen its resolve among its adherence but i think there's going to be people around the region realize the actions have gone way, way out of line. >> i think when people watch this, too, they are trying to figure out why would isis ratchet this up and we've heard your explanation for that. and if isis knew that this jordanian pilot came from a prominent family, which i assume they knew who this guy was, why wouldn't they keep him alive? wouldn't he be more valuable to them alive? >> you know, i feel they might have found more benefit, let's say, in executing him for pr purposes. it's like a pr victory for them. it's almost like, who is going to laugh at the end. and it seems like isis believes that it has gotten the upper hand in this, this it was bringing jordan to its knees.
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but then i think in a way it's backfired because it did not bring jordan to its knees. if anything, it demonstrated that the jordanian community is against this kind of radical action and against terrorism and it's not going to side with isis. >> stand by. there are a lot of developments here and elements in this breaking news story. laith, senior terrorism analyst, stand by for us. we'll continue with the breaking news. we urge you to keep it here on msnbc. we'll be right back. i bring the gift of the name your
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welcome back. we are continuing breaking news right now. we understand that jordan has executed two al qaeda prisoners. this comes hours after isis on released videos of a jordanian pilot. in the video he is said to have been burned alive.
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the jordanian pilot was captured after his f-16 crashed in syria in december. according to isis he has been executed. in retaliation jordan has executed two al qaeda prisoners. we are continuing to follow this breaking news and we'll have the latest right here on msnbc. and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away
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and burned alive. i want to bring in nbc's ayman mohyeldin. as people watch this play out, i think a lot of people are trying to understand the time line of this. how did this begin with two japanese prisoners and end up with a jordanian pilot executed? >> for the past several months isis has been not just with the japanese hostages, but american or british, either kidnap directly or buy from other terrorist groups who may have kidnapped foreign nationals, trying to gather as many as they can. we saw a short while ago, perhaps ten days ago, the release of a second video that
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purportedly showed kenji goto epa in that video there was evidence to suggest that the previous journalist who had been held by isis was executed. at that point the demands by isis that jordan release him began to surface. it was at that point subsequently after that video emerged that the jordanian authorities said that they would be willing to release her in exchange for the japanese hostage as well as the jordanian pilot seen on the video that was burned alive. in the past several days the story certainly accelerated. you know there's a lot of fast-moving pieces to it. the isis group had put out several deadlines for when they wanted a response. they did not get responses in time. in other cases jordan responded immediately saying they would be willing to offer the prisoner
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up in exchange for the pilots along with a proof of life but as the deadline approached, there was no proof of life from isis and so there was no prisoner swap and then we got word and saw the video of the execution or the murder of the second japanese hostage. today, the video showing the execution of the jordanian air force pilot. >> what is so interesting about this time line, we are hearing that the pilot was killed somewhere around january 3rd, but as of a few days ago isis was still trying to bargain for the release of a prisoner held in jordan for a swap with the pilot. >> that's correct. certainly we are probably going to learn more about that in the coming days. it's not yet clear why the jordanian government made the
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announcement that they believe he was killed january 3rd. they were very clear about that today. it came from the jordanian armed forces and posted on the news agency website. they said they believe the jordanian pilot was killed several weeks ago, going back to early january. that could be from open source intelligence or the jordanian government may have had top secret intelligence confirming that the pilot had been killed but did not want to go public with it given the fact that the subsequent videos emerged where the jordanian pilot was discussed. the timeline aspect is one that the jordanian and other western intelligence services are going to try to piece together but there's no doubt that once the japanese hostage videos started
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to emerge and the jordanian government wanted to make a deal for the jordanian pilot, they insisted on seeing a proof of life. that could have been because they were skeptical that the pilot may still be in fact alive, or they may have been trying to call isis's bluff, so to speak. >> hold on for us. we want to bring in steve clemons. the editor at large for the atlantic. steve, as you have been listening to this and the time line as we have been discussing and i asked earlier of one of our analysts, why wouldn't isis try to keep the pilot alive? it seems like he would be more valuable to them alive. >> i think they didn't know the foresight of what was coming ahead. i think that the -- i mean ayman covers this. we all watched. it's hard to know what's in the minds of these people when they elect to kill folks.
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it seems to me that they had decided that there was no price that they would take for this pilot, that he represented, in their theology and what they believe a collaborator with the united states, a collaborator with everything they are opposed to. when you look at the propaganda video and see so much focused on jordanian collaboration and cooperation with the united states, it seems that isis lost any off ramp for getting rid of him. i sthi that is why of the reasons. but i am speculating in this case. i don't think they would have ever traded him for any amount of money or for any other hostage and that all of this was a ruse. >> so you are telling me it was so valuable to them, so highly
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regarded as a recruiting tool been that they went to be those extremes. >> i think ayman said it beautifully earlier in that they believe in -- you know sometimes it's hard to imagine these horrible thugs as people that are thoughtful, that have an internally consistent doctrine that they believe they are executing in this. i think there have been some changes. i was surprised when they kidnapped the japanese hostages. and that they used them and challenged japan. japan had committed resources to the anti-isis coalition as well. there is a logic, if you will, to some of what isis is doing. but i believe the capture of this pilot was too symbolically significant for them. the kind of spectacular death they created for him was both a
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sign of their primacy competing against other groups around the world in this extreme islamist mode and that it is also sadly something that's attracted this kind of brutal killings attracted people from around the world. upwards of about 18,000 foreign fighters into their ranks. some of whom by the way, we haven't talked about it, have been disaffected. there is evidence that isis may have executed up to 200 foreign fighters attempting to leave and return to their homes. so the isis package isn't working as well as it once was and these videos are signed to attract followers and to essentially boast about what they are doing. we have to take them seriously. they believe they are on a mission to create a state that the united states and western meddling is something they are trying to expel, which is not
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inconsistent with al qaeda and some of the internal theological dna of the groups that have caused so much horror. >> steve, do you think perhaps though that isis may have miscalculated this time around that the brutality is so bad that it's going to backfire on them? >> i think it's backfiring for another reason. i think we're all repelled. many of us are repelled by the brutality and how awful it is. one would hope that people across the muslim world are repelled by what they have seen as well. that said, you have to admit that if you were to take the temperature yesterday in amman or jordan, there was great dissatisfaction with the government. now the fact that he may have been killed weeks ago changed
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the calculation and the spectacular death and execution of this man by fire has potentially strengthened the hand of the king. i am surprised because i sat in meetings as early as yesterday with very senior u.s. government officials who worried that if this pilot was alive and was executed it would create political instability inside of jordan. there was worry in washington we weren't going to pressure jordan one way or another. we decided this needed to be their deal, not our deal. it was a fragile situation. now you look at today, with the pictures and images we are getting back, it seems clear, at least at this moment, that the people are rallying around the government and rallying against isis in a way i think we weren't sure would happen just 24 hours
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ago. >> absolutely. it seems today that the king said he was going to act swiftly. in fact he did, executing two al qaeda prisoners. steve clemons, i am going to ask you to stand by. we have much more on this story. we are going to continue with our breaking news coverage. we will be right back.
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for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. hello, everybody. it's about 30 minutes past midnight here in the east. we have breaking news in valhalla, new york.
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about an hour north of new york city is where that is and you're looking at a map of the area where seven people are confirmed dead and at least 12 people injured after a train collided with a jeep cherokee. according to the reports, the gates came down on top of the vehicle stopped on the tracks. the driver got out, and got in and it was struck by the train. those seven people confirmed dead. the female driver of the jeep and six passengers. about 400 passengers were rerouted by bus. joining me is gus rosendale who was at the scene. gus, this is what the second biggest commuter rail in the country. this happened during rush hour, couldn't been at a worse time, especially for the seven people who were killed. >> we were talking to the passengers on board. if you're the commuter, you can imagine the scene. it left at 5:44, carrying
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approximately 650 people. when you talk with them their experiences of what they encountered really varied depending where they were sitting on the train. people at the back of the train barely knew there was a problem. a very different story in the front. we believe the casualties were in the first car. we talked to one man who was in car number four. he talks about a jolt he felt when they hit the jeep and dragged it for the length, they say, of about ten train cars. so this train was going at a good clip, could not stop in time, hit the jeep and dragged it underneath. when that happened it led to an explosion and an enormous outpouring of smoke that filled the train cars. as for the experience from the people on board, the ones i was talking to say they didn't get much in the way of instruction or updates so imagine that for a
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second. you experience this, you are probably waiting for instruction what to do next. >> right. >> that appears to not have happened. they got one brief announcement from the conductor. then the people started to smash the windows with their bare hands. it was up to them to get the windows open and doors open. and they did. governor cuomo, who updated us about an hour ago did point out as terrible as this is to lose seven lives, you have this train packed standing room only and hundreds of people safely evacuate with a live third rail right there is truly extraordinary and home with their families tonight and very grateful for it. >> absolutely, gus. i want you to stand by because we have sound coming in to msnbc from one of the passengers on that train. take a listen. >> i felt a big bump and i just kind of got shot forward a little bit. then everything went silent and
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there was a brief clip statement from the conductor. everything was silent after that. usually when there's a problem, which i've experienced before, the conductor has a trio of what to do and please be patient. there's clearly a problem there. within seconds or a minute after that happened, people in the front of the train started saying move back, move back, there is smoke in the front car. that sort of built that kind of -- it wasn't panic because people were saying stay calm, but people were clearly getting more and more anxious and that's when we started to get the emergency doors and windows open. >> gus he said they weren't panicked but i imagine there had to have been a bit of panic inside as you were smelling the smoke. you a you mentioned, they weren't getting any kind of indication as to what to do next.
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>> no, i think the people in the first couple of cars saw the problem, visually could realize the issue at hand and were moving backwards. i think most people on the train didn't realize how bad it was until they got outside and saw the enormous fire. there are questions about communication and what people should have been told. sometimes you don't want to run out of the train because it can be dangerous because of electricity and other trains nearby. you don't necessarily want a mass evacuation but eventually that's what we had. >> there is no indication whether or not the intercom system was knocked out with the crash either. there are a lot of questions still needing answers. perhaps you know the answer to this. this train collided with, i believe is was a jeep cherokee stuck on the tracks. do you know if this woman driving that vehicle, did the car just lose power? why did she get out and get back in? do you have any indication as to what happened with that? >> that's a big question. why was the truck on the tracks?
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we know that the gates from the vantage point of our own chopper were down so that would indicate that the truck was on the tracks for some period of time before the gates came down. this is all speculation of what we could see from the news chopper. usually the gates go down a good bit of time before the train is 0 on the scene so it indicates perhaps the woman had sometime. what was wrong with the vehicle, if there was something wrong with it, that's unclear at this point. we learned a little bit more about the severity of the crash. when the train hit her car, hit that jeep the jeep was moved forward, and the third rail alongside on the bottom of the ground there powers the train, that third rail pierced the jeep. that's now underneath essentially the train and that third rail then pierced the train itself coming up right through it. live third rail with a deadly amount of electricity coming through it as well. we know it was a crash that
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happened when the train was moving at a good clip. the engineer was not able to stop and why the truck was on the tracks. that's the focal point of the ntsb go team presumably and believe out of washington tomorrow morning and long before noon boots on the ground. >> as we look at video of this, smoke coming out of the train cars there and a wide shot it is very cold here in new york. we have had a blizzard. now we have had more snowfall. so what happened to the hundreds of passengers that were on board once this happened? they obviously got off of the train. was there any kind of shelter? how were they provided for? >> this particular bit of rail line runs parallel to a highway. there had been shortly before this, just one of those twists of fate a car accident not too far from the crash scene, of the train crash scene. so there were first responders very close by already who were
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able to get there very, very quickly. their primary focus at the beginning was on the people. but there was a massive response as you would imagine from the different municipalities in this area and people were helped to like essentially a local health club. i don't know the extent they were debriefed by the authorities. i think the main point people reaching out to families to arrange a reunion. the roads were closed, so people trying to get to family members who were stranded had difficulty doing that. but as you say, you know a lot of these people were getting out of the train. i don't know how many grabbed jackets in time. seemed like most of them were able to do that and briefcases, too. this is a commuter line. and they were taken to a local businesses for shelter while they were working to get together with their families. >> what do you know about the at least seven people that were injured in this accident?
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>> in particular we are told that, who was not among that number, is the engineer, which is kind of shocking when you see the first train car. as the governor put the, that car was gutted. you would presume the engineer being in the front, the commuter rails don't have a large locomotive in front of them. essentially it is a sheer windshield and that's where the engineer the man or woman operator is sitting. we are told the engineer is not among the casualties. the other driver we don't know. the passengers in the front car -- we talked to one man today. i think you played a bit of his interview with us. he was the man i was talking about his fingers were bloodied when he was trying to get out. he talked to commuters -- it's very much a habitual thing. people tend to sit in the same
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seats, talk to the same people. that are many on the train who are home now. that know some of the victims. i imagine we'll get a better sense of who they are. >> of the seven people killed, help us understand how this played out. do you think it was from the impact, the fire, the smoke? any indication at all? >> unclear at this point. i mean the fire you saw there, you had a jeep so you know it was run over. some sort of explosion. you would imagine that could have been a factor in it as well. again, this was a packed commuter train. a lot of injuries were everything from smoke inhalation to minor things like falling if you were a passenger they couldn't get a seat. again, we are speculating. when you see the front car, that first train car, this is
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something -- the outside is in many places smeared with smoke. so you have a combination of things that could have easily proven lethal here. >> all right. thanks so much for that. we'll ask you to stand by gus. i want to bring in nbc's rehema ellis at the westchester medical center. what can you tell us about the injured? >> according to the metropolitan transit authority, about ten passengers brought here to the westchester medical center as the number one trauma center in this region close to the accident site and some 24 25 miles north of new york city. we were told that ten of those passengers were seriously injured. but we do not yet know the exact condition of them. we should pan over a little bit and you should see the building. i was inside just a short while ago and i saw some loved ones of these passengers in the waiting
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room. you can imagine there were looks of anxiety and anxiousness on their faces waiting for word of the condition of when's happened to the people that they care for the most. this is very difficult time for them understandably because when you get on a train at the start of the evening commute, you have every expectation that you will arrive at your destination safely but that did not happen for hundreds of passengers tonight. 12 of them we're told are here at this medical facility. ten transported here. seriously injured. we're waiting for word on the exact extent of those injuries. >> all right. joining us live thank you for that. and again, a crowded new york commuter train struck a vehicle this afternoon during rush hour. the height of rush hour. seven people were killed. at least 12 being treated there at the westchester medical center and following this breaking news and will continue to bring you the latest. keep it right here on msnbc.
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all right. 44 minutes past the hour. thank you for joining us. it's been a busy night here in the msnbc newsroom. another breaking news story to tell you about. we are following a deadly plane crash happening in taipei. a taiwanese transasia airways plane took off 10:45 local time 9:45 p.m. eastern and then crashed ten minutes later with 58 people on board. according to reports, at least nine people were killed. the plane went down in a river after clipping a bridge. so far, 16 people have been taken to hospitals. the latest crash, though comes months after another transasia plane went off -- went down off of the coast. that killing 48 people. again, taiwanese commercial flight with 53 people on board. clipped a bridge shortly after takeoff and crashed into a river in the island's capital of taipei and you see people on flow ration devices there.
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the fus raj in that river. some of them standing on on the of the fuselage. no word yet on what caused the accident. good news is that the river is close to a bank so many of them as you see in the video here able to get safely to shore and see emergency crews on the ground. no word on any other injuries in this, though. we know that 53 passengers were on board. ten people though been aiken to safety. no immediate information about that. again, this is pretty incredible video as you are seeing people being hoisted out of that plane on to rafts. alan dale with the formerly with the ntsb joins me now on the phone. a lot of information coming into the newsroom as the fluid situation here tonight. we have a lot of breaking news to deal with. on this story in particular, the crash of a taiwanese plane and looking at videos of passengers
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being pulled out of it i don't know any indication as to what caused this accident only that it clipped a bridge. that sounds pretty odd. wouldn't it to you? alan are you with me? >> clipped the bridge over the potomac back in '82 but yeah. you know, from -- i saw that same video, the landing gear was up and the plane banked sharply. i don't know taking off or landing or somewheres in between but that -- that's a strange accident. obviously, clipping a bridge is extremely unusual even if it did happen once there in washington, d.c. >> well alan this is the video of it and quite dramatic. you see the plane out of the sky. over some of the buildings and then the wing just clipped the bridge there and we are being told because you asked the question, you didn't know takeoff or landing. this was shortly after takeoff. so does that give you any indication of what may have went
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wrong? >> you know it is awfully early to talk about that. gear was up and attempting to climb. they were attempting to cloim and that in a way does sound like that crash that occurred in the potomac. famous air florida crash. but, you know the evidence sort of suggests that he was trying to clip the bridge and locked like by hitting a wing that could be enough -- slow speeds doesn't take much to bring an aircraft down and of course taking off you're probably flying roughly 100, 110 miles per hour so it's hard to keep an aircraft in the air. clearly rolled to the left and you can see -- i don't see evidence that the prop ---en gins weren't failing but developing power and the gear was up. >> we are understanding that there were at least nine people killed in this crash. as i mentioned earlier, ten people were taken to a safe area
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but we don't know about the injuries as of yet. do you have any indication as to the history record of this plane? >> well the -- it's called an atr-72 and it's a common commuter aircraft. it's a french-made aircraft. and they're really popular with the larger commuter users. we did use one here in the states very famously back when it'sed up in holding pattern i think it was 1994 or thereabouts and the plane went in. looks like there's about 20 of these aircraft involved. i don't think they have a particularly bad safely record although it is strange and unusual that transair this taiwanese carrier lost two of these aircraft now and, you know, in 8 months i guess it is. july to february. so yeah. that is strange. they would lose two in this -- same type of aircraft in rapid
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succession like this. >> that's a good point. this accident months after transasia atr-72 a similar plane crashed attempting to land. that crash killed 48 people and injured at least 10. this one killed at least nine. that video, that dash cam video of the plane coming out of the sky over the buildings and just -- the wing clipping the side of that bridge. not sure where this dash cam video coming from. from kind of vehicle. but very lucky, though alan that there weren't -- ian, i'm sorry. there weren't anymore people on the freeway there or that roadway because this plane could have definitely perhaps caused injuries here. >> you may remember that -- i keep coming back to that bridge strike in washington, d.c. and there were i think two or three people killed that were in vehicles on that bridge but
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apparently no one was hurt on the roadway there or the bridge from what we do. but when i saw the picture of the fuselage in the submerged in the river i was astounded. i just hope that these reports that i guess there's ten dead and nine dead and ten survivors and i just hope that there are more survivors. boy, it looked like the fuselage disrupted and it was submerged in the river. again, very precarious situation and let's just hope and pray that there are more survivors although i'm surprised that they have said ten survivors as i believe, betty. >> yeah. they said ten. look. this information is still coming in and very fluid and ten people were being taken to safety. that's what we're getting according to associated press reports. we originally reported nine killed. now the ap saying at least eight
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killed. this is a breaking news situation and the information is trickling in and some of it coming in with different numbers but i want to get back to your point about that fus raj here on the screen and you see the rescue workers there in those rafts trying to get passengers inside that plane out and to safety toward the front of that fus raj and looking toward the left of your screen you see another portion of the plane. so what's in between there? is it just missing or is that just parts of the plane that's submerged? >> we don't know. obviously, it may have broken up on impact. may be separated. i'm not looking at the particular photograph but i have seen the video of it. i frankly couldn't tell exactly if it was -- which part of the fuselage it was. it's a long cylinder fuselage. i couldn't see the other wreckage in the photos i saw but it does look like from what you're describing the aircraft
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fuselage disrupted. that happened again in the air florida accident. if you remember that was a snowy and the river frozen. the potomac frozen and very heroic efforts made using helicopters to rescue i think there were five survivors in the air florida crash. i did investigate that many of 1982 as i recall but that's a famous crash. but any time an aircraft goes in the water, i've investigated another crash down in pensacola where a boeing went into the water and we only lost three people there. but that was in a controlled entry into the water. the plane was landing and it just landed short of the airport. but here it looks like the plane was rolling to its left. very violently. i just hope and pray we have got more survivors but i'm not optimistic, betty. >> yeah. and that video, again, it is just quite remarkable seeing this plane basically fall out of the sky if you will and you said
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it made a sharp turn and does that give you an indication of what kind of malfunction might have occurred? >> no. like i said just from looking at the video and the stills it's hard to tell but, you know there's no evidence that one of the engines and it would have probably been the last engine failed and no evidence of that. it's a propeller aircraft and if an engine would fail you would expect maybe one of the propellers would be stopped. why see that. i'm not saying that that -- you know, both engines were running but just saying that you can tell that the gear was definitely up. if you look at the two spots, black spots on the bottom of the fuselage fuselage, those are the tires of the aircraft. the gear clearly up and hard to tell. i'm going to go back and look a little bit more at the wreckage. i can see more of the wreckage. i don't want to play this because i think it might have an
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audio with it betty. >> okay. meantime, let me ask you this. >> sure. >> this was -- this plane was taking off shortly before the crash. do you have any indication of perhaps how fast they may have hit this river? >> well i'm not -- you know i have an airline transport pilot license and never flown this kind of aircraft but i have flown turbo props and normally you'd -- around 100 miles per hour, maybe a little faster on takeoff would be just a horseback estimate of what kind of speed you're talking about. they're much slower than jet takeoffs but for that kind of airplane, i would imagine it would be going around 100 miles per hour. >> geez. not a lot of time to react and as a passenger on the plane, not much that you can do at that point. >> well, you know in this book i wrote, i don't know if you've got the graphic on it but in the back of the book there's a turns out there are some things you
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can do beforehand and during a crash and the most important thing you can do is don't panic but the second -- >> easier said than done. >> absolutely. as you probably know i survived a plane crash myself and it's difficult not to panic. okay? but the other thing i was going to say is you need to get into a brace position. you want to get your head and upper torso up against whatever it will hit on impact because that will protect you. we don't have shoulder harnesses in aircraft. we don't have air bags. prevent your upper torso and head from whiplashing if you will into the seat in font of you or whatever is in front of you. get up against what you think you will hit and put your arms over the face to the extent you can and other thing i talk about in the appendix of the book is wear sensible shoes and i don't think they -- there's no
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indication they deployed slides. >> right. we are watching video of them pulling people out of the plane at this hour. at least we are not sure when this was taken but, of course eight to nine people killed in this taiwanese plane crash and continuing to follow it. keep it here on msnbc for the latest.
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xñ we are going to continue coverage of the developments in jordan tonight. joining me now on the phone is aman. what do we know about what has occurred there tonight? >> lawrence we've gotten confirmation now from the jordanian government officially from the ministry of interior that shortly after dawn in jordan the jordanian government carried out the execution of two convicted terrorists that it had in its custody. identity of these two individuals, one of them known to us very much so because it was on the name of lists

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